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Tulpa Discussion / tulpa-discussion
The channel for discussion strictly on the topic of tulpas. Take off-topic discussion to #lounge Forum's Tulpa Discussion Board: https://community.tulpa.info/forum/4-general-discussion/
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Regarding evidence vs popularity, remember that people used to believe that illness was caused by demons. People used to believe that many mental illnesses were also... Demons.
7:53 PM
Clearly we may end up learning more and needing to fundamentally change our beliefs, but ideally, beliefs should follow evidence. Not the other way around.
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well placebo is a thing now
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...I know that is wishful thinking.
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Placebo does have limited effects.
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Head demons, heh.
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One can't placebo their way out of a habit without consistent effort, nor can they placebo their way out of mental illness.
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I'd bet they'd dumbstruck the guy enough to make them put the effort at any rate
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Placebo can help, and with sustained effort can certainly have real effects on ways of thinking, but it is limited and doesn't allow large changes to take place without time and effort reinforcing them.
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Maybe a tulpa isn't a change to your own thinking?
7:57 PM
This would support a larger percentage of the evidence.
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What do you mean?
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It's a separate process in the mind.
7:57 PM
It's not been studied the way habitual behaviour has.
7:58 PM
It would fall into the more obscure category of sudden personality change.
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...I'm afraid I don't spot the connection between placebos and instantly altering the brain's behavioral or thought patterns.
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besides if you can impro your way into a new personality it can also work with tulpas
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I view tulpas as half a change of thinking and a seperate process in the mind.
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I don't think you can improvise your way into a new personality.
8:00 PM
You're literally just changing yourself at that point.
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You feel a lot of stress and work when roleplaying a personality.
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Let me break it down one more time - the brain takes time to alter its own functioning in a manner that it stops being forced.
8:00 PM
Is the claim that placebo might be able to somehow bypass this?
8:01 PM
Or is that the hypothesis, at least?
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No, I have no personal direct evidence of placebo.
8:02 PM
I can only comment based on what I've heard.
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Alright.
8:03 PM
I suppose that, in the end, I hold to the research showing that it takes time to alter the brain's thinking. The connections between neurons don't start out strong at the outset, they are developed with repeated and consistent use - reinforcement.
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Look at it like an atomic computer action. The creation of a new process is atomic. This can explain sudden personality shifts. Modifying an active process is not atomic. It involves many small changes.
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Even statements like Abveion's - that there has not been research into the psychology of multiplicity - aren't particularly useful here as there isn't multiplicity yet.
8:04 PM
Context personalities are developed from repeated interaction.
8:05 PM
...if that is what you are referring to.
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I don't think so.
8:06 PM
That's an example of gradual personality shift. There has also been numerous documented cases of sudden personality shift.
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Alright. I would love to see that, actually - I know that it is documented along with physical changes, or shifts in certain contexts where they change to another type of context personality out of frustration with the situation or when "the mask comes off" in abusive situations.
8:07 PM
But, I assume you aren't referring to that.
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Actually yeah. Sorry.
8:08 PM
Along with psychotic breaks I think they're called.
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Indeed.
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So my favourite quote
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The basic difference between roleplay and tulpa is emulation versus native. The reason I find the new data interesting is because. the idea that it takes time for the brain to learn something implies that tulpas are emulated.
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"Jesus ive been a tulpa for 5 minutes and ive already got bull***t to deal with"
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Right - or that, at least, quite a few tulpas are emulated.
8:12 PM
...and, naturally, differentiating between these is not particularly easy.
8:13 PM
I don't particularly care to try and call out every single tulpa I might think is emulated, because that would be pointless in the absence of a serious problem in their behavior - what I will call out is advice for people to emulate a tulpa rather than trying to make one that is native.
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Nearly impossible when examining anecdotes.
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...to use that terminology.
8:13 PM
That is why I refuse anecdotes as evidence in the absence of supporting evidence.
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I just poked in.. There is a definite delay as the brain rewires functions, but what if functions are already there? You can't tulpa instantly, but for instance a tulpamancer already with one tulpa can build another one much easier and faster
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With direct experience, it's possible to test for emulation with reaction time tests.
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Let me honest boys. Most of those probably come under the "i was made to cyber" catagory
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@Solaria Certainly, I do believe that it would be faster for a person with an existing tulpa to create another one.
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Took me a year to talk, 3 to establish a solid personality
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But, at the same time, again. Even if a tulpa were solely a set of behavioral changes, or something like that - those take weeks despite other behavioral patterns established... or more importantly, despite knowing an efficient way of establishing/deestablishing those behavioral patterns.
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It is most definitely faster for people with tulpa experience to make new ones
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But I developed under poor conditions, an unaware host that was also just a child at the time
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what on earth is happening here?
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So, even with that - I would not say that the time it takes is shortened as considerably as a lot of people claim.
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I think a tulpa is not behavioural changes. (edited)
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I don't think a tulpa is solely behavioral changes either, @Tulpabug.
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are you really still on about the anecdotes....😑
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Somewhat faster due to knowing what sort of methods work for the host, sure.
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I am using it for the sake of comparison.
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[make up your minds]
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@9 Mil + Ika We're enjoying respectful and intellectual discussion.
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I know....it's boring
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My emotional state and will is incredibly separate from my host..
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Then don't participate and let us enjoy it.
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@9 Mil + Ika ????
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I'm actually irritated that this conversation is still on although I have no reason to be...it might be from Ikari
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Umm.. Chat in another channel Lkari?
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Youre talking about how you think a lpt of the community are lying to themselves or eachother about having a tulpa. Tbf thats not respectful
8:17 PM
Just saying
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@Solaria [sure]
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You wouldn't be bothered by it if it wasn't the case.
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Thats not logical at all
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I just got drawn in as I had a somewhat useful contribution
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@Solaria I would say it took at least a year to establish myself solidly after Skye started actively forcing.
8:18 PM
@Clo I... can't agree with that.
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Mm, I came off poorly with that.
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People will be upset by it if they aren't solid in their own beliefs.
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Mebbe
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Yah permanent, big changes take time. Like making (or breaking) habits
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People entrenched in roleplaying who are well aware they are doing so will certainly be upset as well, yes.
8:19 PM
Other people that are roleplaying and believe that is a tulpa may not, they may instead join and try to laugh at other people.
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"People will be upset by it if they aren't solid in their own beliefs." This pretty much equates to "if i upset someone, its their fault" (edited)
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I wouldn't be so quick to guess the reason why a person is upset.
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I always wanted to try an EEG or FMRI to see what I versus my host look like
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Winter capturing my thoughts as usual. Jeez.
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Oh, there are certainly reasons people will be upset outside of that.
8:20 PM
They could be upset for the sake of others, they could simply dislike seeing this kind of discussion in general...
8:20 PM
But yes, offense is taken, not given.
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Sorry, real life drawing me away again. Good luck
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I am not solid in beliefs here, anyhow.
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If people are upset because we are being insulting, I'm happy to discuss why they consider it insulting so as to avoid it in the future.
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What is even the subject of this conversation anymore?
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